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WGA/AMPTP talks collapse

Dec 7, 2007, 11:19 PM | by Lynette Rice

Categories: Strike, TV Biz

No early present under the Christmas tree today. After another week of talks that had everyone hoping  Hollywood would finally put an end to the month-old strike, talks collapsed today between the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers and the WGA. And it's unclear when--or if--the two sides will return to the table.   

As has become customary, both sides came out firing with their own statements accusing the other party of derailing talks with unreasonable demands. The AMPTP struck first with this particularly angry missive about the WGA's tactics:

"We're disappointed to report that talks between the AMPTP and WGA have broken down yet again. Quite frankly, we're puzzled and disheartened by an ongoing WGA negotiating strategy that seems designed to delay or derail talks rather than facilitate an end to this strike. Union negotiators in our industry have successfully concluded 306 major agreements with the AMPTP since its inception in 1982. The WGA organizers sitting across the table from us have never concluded even one industry accord.

"We believe our New Economic Partnership proposal, which would increase the average working writer's salary to more than $230,000 a year, makes it possible to find common ground. And we have proved over the last five months that we want writers to participate in producers' revenues, including in theatrical and television streaming, as well as other areas of new media. However, under no circumstances will we knowingly participate in the destruction of this business.

"While the WGA's organizers can clearly stage rallies, concerts and mock exorcisms, we have serious concerns about whether they're capable of reaching reasonable compromises that are in the best interests of our entire industry. It is now absolutely clear that the WGA's organizers are determined to advance their own political ideologies and personal agendas at the expense of working writers and every other working person who depends on our industry for their livelihoods."

The statement goes on to say the WGA has made a number of "unreasonable demands" instead of negotiating, such as asking for restrictions "designed to prevent networks from airing any reality programs unless they are produced under terms in keeping with the WGA agreement."

Within minutes, the WGA replied with a statement of their own accusing the AMPTP of coming back to them with a counter-offer that included "a total rejection of our proposal on Internet streaming on Dec. 3... They are holding to their offer of a $250 fixed residual for unlimited one year streaming after a six-week window of free use. They still insist on the DVD rate for internet downloads. They refuse to cover original material made for new media. This offer was accompanied by an ultimatum: the AMPTP demands we give up several of our proposals, including fair market value (our protection against vertical integration and self-dealing), animation, reality, and, most crucially, any proposal that uses distributor’s gross as a basis for residuals. This would require us to concede most of our Internet proposal as a precondition for continued bargaining. The AMPTP insists we let them do to the Internet what they did to home video.

"We received a similar ultimatum through back channels prior to the discussions of November 4.  At that time, we were assured that if we took DVD’s off the table, we would get a fair offer on new media issues.  That offer never materialized."

No new negotiations are scheduled at this time.

rfht wbkz Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 05:50 AM EST

ihwatkjb ugfdnyazi tuneojgpz uryoad sdmejwyc wlcvjo tmfhelnb

Mon, Dec 24, 2007 at 06:51 PM EST

These people are truly ridiculous. Mine workers, teachers, factory workers, these people need unions (or guilds). The people on BOTH sides of this fight are people who have everything they need to live comfortable lives and have gotten wrapped up in their privledged lifestyle that they have forgotten how and why unions and guilds come into being: to keep impoverished people from being taken advantage of so that they can count on being able to feed their families, not as a means to threaten for money they don't need.

David Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 05:54 AM EST

I think the WGA should change "residuals" to "royalties" that way people understand they are earning the same pay as writers and artists and other people who create something are paid. Then it is more along the lines of what consumers already understand about how artists are paid.

I also don't understand the whole argument the corporations are coming up with about "new media". It shouldn't matter how the show is aired, either first run, syndication, DVD, internet, cell phone, god only knows what next, everybody should get paid a percentage of it just like any other media. There needs to be one simple contract that states if it is a single airing to multiple people at once they get a certain percentage of revenue (first run, syndication), and if it's a single airing to a single person (DVD, internet) they get a percentage of each individual item sold. That way it covers any new media formats that may come along since it takes into account the general way its aired, not specificly

kidne Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 11:29 AM EST

What we as Americans need to do is not be so obsessed by TV. FIND SOMTHING ELSE TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE INSTEAD OF WORRYING ABOUT THE NEXT EPISODE OF LOST.Your life is very short,make the best of it instead of spending 33% of your life staring at a tv screen.

Gary Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 11:19 AM EST


For CGK It is pretty amazing that you would tell someone in a teaching job to go and find another higher paying job.Good Call ;then there won't be any writers to talk about,and why don't the writers go get another job and they won't have to worry about it either.and most people have cable and could care less about the writers guild

Scott Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 11:05 AM EST

As an artist I feel the writers' pain. Money matters can bring out the worst in people. What the AMPTP is doing is classic. Throw out some arbitrary salary numbers and the outrage grenade explodes! Having said that I do have a problem with what I see as a deliberate effort at race bashing on all of the popular shows. Pick one and you'll see evidence of this. I can't feel too sorry for either side since they all feel the need to engage in this activity. Shows like C.S.I., the Unit, Heroes, the Shield, Cane, Bones, all seem to think that they're doing their jobs just having minorities on the show-- how the characters are written is irrelevant. Well, this practice needs to stop and if it means they all have to go and stay away for awhile then so be it. Television (scripted and otherwise) should be for EVERYBODY to enjoy, not just one race and gender of people.

mike Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 05:16 AM EST

Kirsty Watson do you seriously think that the amount you get paid is related to how important your job is? Good god women wake up.

You say you are a writer? do you mean books, or are you also wanting to get into TV? Because the writers are controlled by other people on what to write, which can dramaticaly constrict the quality.

interracialconnect.com : a niche interracial dating site Tue, Dec 11, 2007 at 02:23 AM EST

stupid writers

Kirsty Watson Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 06:47 PM EST

I'd have more sympathy for the writers if they actually wrote good scripts. I am sick of turning on my television as seeing poorly scripted and dull dialogue. I'm not saying all writers can't write but as a writer myself it offends me that it's hard to get into the industry and they are in and they want more. At the end of the day it's just a job and it's no more important than being a bin man or a shop assistant.

Bill Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 04:53 PM EST

TRSquare - that $230,000 figure is for WORKING writers. There is a huge amount of risk in being a writer for a living, including a large risk of no work. This is why they want greater compensation for reuse of their work. Presently they get 1/3 of a penny for every dollar of DVD sales. So, if a DVD costs $20, the writer currently gets a whopping six cents.

Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 04:11 PM EST

I support the writers. One way I did it is by canceling Christmas for the media moguls: I canceled all my orders for DVDs. I won't buy another disc or another download or watch any streaming content or go to their web sites until the AMPTP, which UNILATERALLY WALKED OUT OF THE TALKS LAST FRIDAY, gives the writers a fair deal.

The AMPTP does not have the truth on their side, and that's why they turned tail and ran.

For all of you who think the writers are rich wussies who are just whining about nothing, make your decision and take your stand. Do something about it. Organize yourselves, send "I heart media moguls!" cupcakes to Nick Counter over Christmas. Everyone else, who thinks what the AMPTP is doing is criminal, you make your decision, then go to unitedhollywood.blogspot.com and see what you can do to help.

hedcase Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 03:28 PM EST

UM you're right in the fact that writers don't have to put any of their money down to work on a product, but that is true for any job. I hope your job doesn't charge you money every time they want to create a produce. If they do, GET OUT.

There are performance related bonus in some which is what residuals are. If a show is not successful then the show won't be shown as much, and so writers get less residuals.

Also if a writer does a bad job on a show they are less likely to be hired on another job, losing possible earnings.

hedcase Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 03:24 PM EST

txsunshine I really do worry about the state of the American education system if their teachers can't grasp such simple facts.

A lesson plan is not a script. It is simply advice on how to teach. Many writers also write what could be called writing plans, on how to write, and post them on the internet for free. These are comparable.

The new internet money that the writers want would be the same as if the school payed a decent chunk of your salary by how many As, Bs and Cs your students get. Then they decide that they can reach a world wide student body by recording your lessons and put them on the internet. Instead of the £5 grand a year you make from the bonus for student grades you are now making £5 pounds a year, and the school body is making huge profits.

Wouldn't you go on strike?

Ellipsian Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 01:54 PM EST

Those of you who belive that most writers (or actors, or directors, for that matter) are "millionares", or even just plain "rich", are idiots. Just like you, most of these people don't make large amounts of money at their jobs, IF they can even get a job at all (few have contract jobs that keep them on for long periods of time). The "A-Listers" in Hollywood, similar to the upper-ranks at your (and my) crappy job are the only ones pulling in the big bucks. The rest are just slaving away like the rest of us; it's folly to consider everyone in Hollywood as rich whiners when that couldn't be further from the truth. Don't let the studios convince you that they're not trying to squeeze money from the 95% of writers who are "little guys", and are hurting way more than the top-tier millionares.

txsunshine Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 01:15 PM EST

I am also a teacher and my lesson plans already go online for others to see and use, and no I don't get paid extra for that. So why can't I get a bonus too?

UM Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 12:33 PM EST

It is true though that the producers back every endeavor and it is thrier financial necks on the line. The writers do not have any risk of loss. If a writer creates a pile of junk, it is the producer who is out all the investment money. This HAS to be factored in when considering who is right and who is wrong

Jeff R Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 11:35 AM EST

"Good god trsquare you are pretensious"

That's 'pretentious.'

"the customer is king?! Please!"

Yes, the customer is king, Paula, because if he leaves, the money leaves.

JohnTC Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 11:05 AM EST

I wonder how many of these poor writers have IPods and MP3 players loaded with free music they ripped off the Internet without regard for the rights of the songwriters and artists responsible for creating that music?

aaaa Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 11:04 AM EST

another case of rich people wanting more money...i swear if Lost gets delayed because of this bullsh!t i am going to be very very angry.

Linda Elizabeth Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 08:49 AM EST

Well... THIS t.v seasons over. I bet the sponsers of these tv show are fuming. they lost a season. All these tv shows would be too expensive to bring back into pre-production, so even if the strike would end tomorrow, WE still would not have a new season, don't be fooled! It would cost the network too much money.

Not Another Dumb Ash Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 01:07 AM EST

Support the writers... they are the least respected and probably lowest paid of the creative pool... yet, there would be no movies or tv shows without them... so go figure...

And to the geniuses who now think all WGA writers make 230,00+ a year... I know an even dozen of WGA writers and COMBINED they don't make that... and they work A LOT for shows you wacth every week!

Aurora Olmos Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 12:14 AM EST

I don't even know where to begin. How about the fact that heartless jerks don't want to pay writers their cut. They make millions off of them, the least they can do is pay them more. And to all you morons who blame writers for scripted tv all I have to say is... SUPPLY AND DEMAND. If a writer sees that people watch crap which is unscripted naturally they think "hey, I should write something like that so it becomes a hit" Besides, cut the writers some slack and if people have such a problem with not paying them more then maybe they should stop freeloading their work online that way the writers won't complain.

GM Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 11:55 PM EST

It seems like exactly the right thing is happening. The length of the strike is a sign that there is a real impasse, both sides realize this is critical for their future or their business could suffer or collapse. It must be genuinely hard, since technology is moving faster than both of the groups can imagine, it seems, to me, that the best possible way to compensate for this--the speed of the medium which neither side controls--is to set short windows. Renegotiate smaller chunks more frequently, this way you know what you are fighting for... the *current* state of technology and transmission, not the future.

Barry Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 11:15 PM EST

The screenwriters are only asking for a small payment whenever their work is sold. Right now their shows can be shown on the internet over and over as studios and networks make money on them and the writers get nothing. Before writers fought for residuals in the 1960's they got nothing for repeat showings. "I LOVE LUCY" reruns have made hundreds of millions of dollars and those writers never made a dime from them.

pm Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 11:03 PM EST

(Sorry this reply is late but I just saw it and felt I must reply) as for Terrell are you implying that Libraries are keeping you from getting your just dues on your books then maybe you should give us a list of your books and I will make sure libraries don't "buy" them. Would you like a residual for each circulation a library gives your books? How many people would actually read them if they weren't in a library? Thats the atitude that is getting the WGA into trouble in the first place.

Paula Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 09:31 PM EST

KG- the customer is king?! Please! You probably are the customer at the store who gets irritated when you can't read the "sale" signs correctly. Get a life and find something to do besides watching tv.

Chad Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 06:05 PM EST

Fire all of the writers and hire new ones. I'm sure there are thousands of aspiring writers trying to break into the career field. Do to the same thing to the WGA that Reagan did to PATCO in 1981 when the Air Traffic Controllers went on strike. Organized Labor ceased being useful 50 years ago.

colbea Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 04:23 PM EST

I support the strike!
Don't waste your money. Put your cable TV on hold. Most companies will alllow you to turn off your cable/Dish for up to six months. Don't pay $100.00 a month for reruns and commercials.

donner Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 03:58 PM EST

this isn't going to resolve itself anytime soon...neither side will budge and one side has all the cards/money...so they don't HAVE to budge, they just go 'reality' and keep their revenue stream running...looks like Netflix and movies for me this Spring/Summer!

Tommy Shi Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 03:13 PM EST

Good, I knew the work stoppage wouldn't come to an end that easily, that quickly.

Thank God no new talks have been scheduled. It seems unlikely that the public will be getting any scripted summer programming, much less a spring season.

Hope the strike keeps up through 2008. Also hope the other two guilds join in on the conflict soon.

This strike is the best thing to have happened to the American public in years. Time for people to f**king wake up.

James Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 02:45 PM EST

Basically, this is how I would sum it up in two sentences.

The WGA is demanding too much. The AMPTP is not willing to give more.

mike Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 02:16 PM EST

Good god trsquare you are pretensious. First of all you pick apart someone's grammer, and then manage to miss his point completely. There is no way that teaching plans not earning residuals is the same as writers wanting residuals.

Lesson plans are just that, advice on how to teach. It is not anywhere near the same as writers earning residuals. It is a way for the studios to give part of the risk to the writer. If the show is not popular they will not get shown, and so not get paid as much. To compare it to teaching it would be the same as your boss saying that you will get less monthly pay, but a bonus for every A,B and C your student gets

mike Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 02:16 PM EST

Good god trsquare you are pretensious. First of all you pick apart someone's grammer, and then manage to miss his point completely. There is no way that teaching plans not earning residuals is the same as writers wanting residuals.

Lesson plans are just that, advice on how to teach. It is not anywhere near the same as writers earning residuals. It is a way for the studios to give part of the risk to the writer. If the show is not popular they will not get shown, and so not get paid as much. To compare it to teaching it would be the same as your boss saying that you will get less monthly pay, but a bonus for every A,B and C your student gets

n Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 02:09 PM EST

wow KG. I'm sorry you may have to go without your weekly dose of "How I Met Your Mother" and "Women's Murder Club." And 'the customer is king?' really? seriously? go read a book or something, and let the writers wait out this strike and receive the contracts that they deserve.

alma Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 02:07 PM EST

I agree with Jenna...These people deserve to get paid too...I mean producers and stars and everyone around them get paid, so why not the writers.If you have nothing to watch on tv, go read a book people...
those people are writers also, but they sell their stuff and you paid for them, so why not the stuff on tv? I think it's a long time coming..

n Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 02:07 PM EST

wow KG. I'm sorry you may have to go without your weekly dose of "How I Met Your Mother" and "Women's Murder Club." And 'the customer is king?' really? seriously? go read a book or something, and let the writers wait out this strike and receive the contracts that they deserve.

MB Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 01:22 PM EST

To the person above who questioned the WGA's control over reality programming, asking "aren't those supposed to be unscripted?" I just wanted to let you know, that from what I have heard, a lot of them ARE scripted. I actually have a sibling who writes for a reality TV show (i won't say which one). On the show, a lot of supposed banter or when a person is having a one-on-one with the camera, that's all written out for those people. According to my sibling, this is the case in most reality TV shows.

On the one hand, I can see why WGA would want to have control over reality. I do recall hearing about WRITERS for America's Next Top Model striking last year over their wages, and those writers were let go because they had no union. So I guess that if they were part of the WGA they would have been protected.

However, I am not necessarily sure I want the WGA to take control over reality TV, because if tthey were in control of it, my sibling would be out of work right now.

Bailee Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 01:21 PM EST

It's really annoying to see such selfishness...Yes, you are being deprived of television, and yes, the writers make a lot of money. But the studios are earning money for the writers' ideas, and the writers are not. This is unfair. It is stealing! It doesn't matter how much money they make, if someone is making money off of your hard work, and you're getting shafted in the process, then it takes something like a strike to get what you deserve. I am completely behind the writers, and to the commenter that said "the customer is king," your compassion for the people in this situation is just overwhelming. what a holiday spirit you must have!!! [please note sarcasm]

Steve Real Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 11:01 AM EST

The Corporates are taking a huge financial loss this 4th quarter.

I support the writer's strike.

While the average AMPTP member makes $28 million a year,
the writer averages around $20,000.
Not a lot of money.

Now they want to pay $250.00 for reruns on the net.
that's 1/3rd of a penny.
Google cleared $9 Billion in advertising this year.
$9 Billion dollars!

Your taking food out of my kids mouth.
Stop supporting the coporate heathens
who lie, cheat and steal.

Yeh,
you might show a profit
in the fourth quarter,
but so didn't Enron.
And how's that working out for them?

Reality TV for all it's hits
does not pull in the same mass market share as
TV shows like "Jay Leno"
or the ever popular "24".

These corporates are paying out millions
to "GM" and "Dell" because they
promised a certain amount of audience share
that they can not deliver.

It takes talent to be the "Beatles"
It takes hard work to be the "Rolling Stones".

Don't get fooled again.

Terrell Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 08:31 AM EST

As a writer/author of more than 50 books I can attest to the fact writers often don't get their due. Anyone ever hear of the library or free domain use on the internet? The total earnings of my 50+ books is about than 1/5th of the yearly average for Hollywood writers. Averice and the desire for power and control are what separate these two sides. Just as agents have ruined sports so will the bickering between those who create and those who produce and present. The only people not represented at the bargaining table are we the financially supporting public. Sounds like our political system doesn't it?

Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 08:16 AM EST

tv sucks

bakerboy Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 07:49 AM EST

I can't get over how many of you are being sucked into a debate over press releases. Those press releases are meant to instill a negative vibe against the other party. Nothing has changed since the beginning of the strike, except for the rhetoric. If we allow ourselves to only argue on the most recent press release then neither side will win. We need to look at the history of these negotiations and the history of both parties. The basic fact is that the WGA was in a legal strike position and they are using that legal right to strike to get themselves a better deal. There is talk of a recession coming to the States. Entertainment is 'recession-proof'. The WGA is using a legal means to make sure that their members are not going to be hit hard by the next financial meltdown, much the same way the auto-workers union is doing in Detroit in an industry that will be hit hard.

JCD Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 03:30 AM EST

I have to agree with KG. I mean it's unlikely we the consumers will be receiving residuals or reparations from studios for being unwillingly subjected to (more) junk on TV and in theaters because of this strike. I want to support the writers (let's face it; without them there's nothing). At the same, however, I'm finding it difficult to be behind an organization that, after putting an entire multi-billion dollar industry and it's thousands of workers on hold, seems to care only about what they want. And I can almost guarantee that any supporters from within the industry are there for two probable reasons: They either want to get back to work so they can feed their kids and provide shelter(s) or so that whenever the contracts of whatever union they're a part of (DGA, SAG) expires, they can follow along and play the same game. Maybe it's both.

JCD Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 03:26 AM EST

I have to agree with KG. I mean it's unlikely we the consumers will be receiving residuals or reparations from studios for being unwillingly subjected to (more) junk on TV and in theaters because of this strike. I want to support the writers (let's face it; without them there's nothing). At the same, however, I'm finding it difficult to be behind an organization that, after putting an entire multi-billion dollar industry and it's thousands of workers on hold, seems to care only about what they want. And I can almost guarantee that any supporters from within the industry are there for two probable reasons: They either want to get back to work so they can feed their kids and provide shelter(s) or so that whenever the contracts of whatever union they're a part of (DGA, SAG), they can follow along and play the same game. Maybe it's both.

Tommy G Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 02:30 AM EST

Judging from this board alone, I think the writers' are starting to lose support from the viewers - I figured that would start when the reruns did. I think people were more in favor of the strike when they had new episodes to watch - now that everything will be on repeats indefinitely, public support is going to wan.

Kevo Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 02:26 AM EST

I feel for the writers up to a point but I think they are putting too much emphasis on the internet. Didn't last month's Nielson ratings show that all shows available online generated viewership of about 10 million viewers for the whole month? That's the same amount of people who view an about-to-be cancelled sitcom on one night. And the quality of online viewing sucks. I tried to watch Grey's Anatomy online and the picture kept freezing. Besides, I'd rather sit on my nice couch infront of the TV than on an uncomfortable chair staring at my computer. I think unless they revolutize the whole concept, give me regular old TV rather than the internet.

om Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 01:47 AM EST

lol. I love the guy/woman who said "who cares, read a book." I think that's a lovely solution for all of us right now. Let the writer's get their fair share, they should be treated as equal value to producers, because really without creative ideas there would be no tv, no movies, no entertainment. The best films started with a good script. As an actor/director I know very well that they are crucial. In the meantime, let's all read some good novels.

Martin Sun, Dec 9, 2007 at 12:15 AM EST

The average annual income between Oprah and I is $500 million. Averages are a stupid thing to quote... There are obviously millionaire writers out there, but there are far more struggling ones. Hmmm... I wonder what the average producer makes?

AvidViewer Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:50 PM EST

Some are incredulous that writers are asking for more $. Well, if the actors & producers make a disgustingly amount of $, they should really ask for a raise. It's called fairness. I can't measure my salary against theirs, but they should measure it against their industry. Writers deal with a lot. Imagine how showrunners constantly ask writers to change their work. Writers have to change their ideas and vision to keep their job. I don't think I could have someone else tell me what to do. Add poor job security:
Aaron Sorkin worked on The West Wing for 4 yrs. (it lasted 7) and is hailed as a writer. Then he wrote "Studio 60" and that lasted a year!
Writers write for entertainment. Even if you dislike "General Hospital," there's a reason it's been around. Though dialogue is melodramatic, it's a niche for people who enjoy that blather. It's still talent & service when they satisfy viewers.
I disagree with the WGA on putting their hand in reality tv. That's not their domain.

Barry Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:48 PM EST

Alexis, the writers are negotiating with the networks and the studios. Nowadays many of the producers are the studios and networks. They are a handful of media giants that are attempting to set terms for the internet. This year the 4 networks made $120 million dollars from advertising on their websites for scripted shows. This revenue is growing at an incredible rate. The writers want to set a small minimum rate for these shows.

AvidViewer Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:36 PM EST

Personally, I agree with the writers' original contention. If they get paid residuals for tv airings, and videos, then they should be eligible for new media. I'm not the best advocate of residuals because I do look at (illegally) uploaded YouTube clips, or download episodes I've missed. But that just goes to show that people do use new media. Networks/production companies see the potential profits from that. And heck, when those companies come at online uploaders/viewers with piracy charges to "protect" their shows, they always claim it's to protect the creators' work. Well if that were true, they'd follow their own policy and actually pay the writers. But no, apparently they like to screw viewers and their own people. What matters to them is money.
I agree the salary is misleading. First of all, writers peak for a few years. Not all shows are hot shows, and those are maybe 10 years, tops. I'm not a tv writer, but that job lacks security.

Smarty Pants Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:31 PM EST

Wow! Really! Millionaires and billionaires are arguing with hundred-thousandaires that are peeved about not quite being millionaires! Wow! I have the solution! How about regular eggs for breakfast instead of faberge eggs! NO! REALLY! Try it! Its, both, delicious and cost effective! Wow!

Sergio Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:24 PM EST

To the person insulting HIMYM: I think your point is being lost on the example you're using. It's not sad. It's an excellent show.

Sienna Scorpio Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:13 PM EST

I'm an educator, but I have job security. It takes an act of congress to fire an educator (unless they do something illegal). Writers can lose their jobs like that. True I don't make as much as them, but I understand of getting residuals, just like a book author or a musician. Also, when teachers help students pass tests, who gets the credit- the Superintendent who makes $250,000 or more per year and the Principal who makes twice as much as I do. The School Board only gives us a paltry 2-3% raise. Besides the DVD technology will phase out in the next ten years, so they need to protect themselves now. But the AMPTP knows if the writers get what they want, the actors and directors will ask for the same.

Ben Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:06 PM EST

Without writers, those producers would be making *nothing*, and we'd all have crappy reality television every night of the week (more so than we already do).

alexis Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 10:51 PM EST

To Barry,
But Barry, the company selling advertising and getting the revenue for the show is not the producer. It's the broadcaster. They pay the producer a fee for the show. The producer pays the writer, actor, technician, assistants, well everyone you see in the credits. Everyone in the credits is paid by the producer. The producer is paid by the newtwork. The producer soes not see those advertising dollars except indirectly as a prorated portion of the license fee. If the producer can charge more from the networks to cover the increased demands from everyone, then there's no problem, but right now, they can't justify that increased rate because they don't know the business model yet. The writers want a cut of the gross, not what the producers net.

Barry Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 09:20 PM EST

Don't be fooled by the companies' figures. The average writer makes $62,000. The writers are asking for a small piece of the internet pie. Currently they get nothing if their show or movie is shown online. But the huge media corporations sell advertising on these websites as they claim they aren't making money. Don't blame the writers blame the media giants: SONY, Rupert Murdoch, General Electric, etc.

steven Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 09:19 PM EST

The last scripted thing I watched was Charmed season 5 years ago. I am looking forward to the analog TV shut off and saving $47 a month for cable. Scripted TV stinks. Now to sign off and watch Deal or no Deal

Brandon Hall Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 09:12 PM EST

Come on? Dissing HIMYM? It's legen..wait for it...dary!

Kamari Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 07:43 PM EST

Who cares? Read a book.

Me Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 06:42 PM EST

Exactly my point: How I Met Your Mother is one of the best written shows on TV right now. How sad is that? If the Seinfeld writers wanted more money, that would be one thing, but...

tnygrl Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 06:39 PM EST

Enough about the WGA & AMPTP. My heart goes out to all the staff and crew who have lost jobs or can't find other work because of this strike. Who's speaking up for all those who rely on this industry to pay their bills on a check-to-check basis?

to me Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 05:42 PM EST

How can you insult How I Met Your Mother? That is one of the most well written comedies on TV right now!

ChuckT Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 05:27 PM EST

The producers may not know what business model(s) is going to be most successful on the internet, but at least they began moving their assets online, investing online and having a presence online over a year ago to have a stake in the future “web pot of gold”. Why haven't the writers done the same? THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM that no one is mentioning is that billions of dollars is being made and millions of people are being entertained on the internet today WITHOUT Hollywood writers' creative input. Their biggest problem is not negotiating an internet deal for the future -- it's proving that they’re going to be of substantial value to the internet in the future DESPITE the fact that they’re irrelevant to the internet today (and that their significance in tv is shrinking as scripted tv slowly dies). If the writers are sitting on their butts with their hands out waiting for the studios to define their value on the internet, then they don't DESERVE to have a piece of the new media pie.

frederick dubois Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 04:32 PM EST

First, for any of us to have a valid opinion there needs to be a good explanation of the entire picture. Whether something is unreasonable or not is difficult to determine otherwise.

With that said, the area that appears to be unreasonable to me is the power grab for mandatory union membership for reality and animation. I thought reality was, well, more real, not scripted like WWF.

As far as percentages go, that seems reasonable to a certian extent. But that extent depends on how many other entities are going to want a piece of the pie. If the writers get 5%, the actors get 7%, the electrical workers get 3%, the parking attendants get 2% and so on then eventaully they will exceed 100% and no one will have a job. There are many different functions that are ALL required to make a production happen. If every critical group demands a percentage the industry will fail.

What this entire strike is reall good for is amature media.

Sergio Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 04:31 PM EST

It's ridiculous that the writers are trying to set restrictions on what reality shows a network can produce. I don't think the networks should have to involve the writers at all if they don't want to.

Also to the person who insulted the writers of HIMYM... do you even watch that show? Because it is awesome.

Wildaces Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 04:19 PM EST

"It's interesting that i found the AMPTP's statement far more articulate than the writer's."

That was really funny....and true! I think the bottom line is, the studios take all the financial risk, a risk the writers don't take a part in. They can't just ask for ridiculous splits. $230,000 on average is a lot of money for any position. Yes, I'm sure a good number make less than that, but as an average that's impressive...not many other professions pay that much. I hate that my shows are on hold, but I hope the AMPTP holds out, I'm sure the writers will start crossing the picket line after they realize the studios can afford a longer hold out.

Jonathan Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 03:35 PM EST

It's interesting that i found the AMPTP's statement far more articulate than the writer's. It seems like the writers are being a little unreasonable now - I mean, come on, if AMPTP is going to give the average writer $230,000 a year... it's all greed now.

James Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 02:30 PM EST

You know, I would be swayed to one side when they accuse the other of being greedy millionaires. Except that they're greedy millionaries too. So you see my dilemma.

Kevin Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 02:27 PM EST

trsquare,

230,000. That's about how much the AMPTP pays their PR people. So the public isn't exactly getting the whole picture from statements. And honestly, if that number is true, I am shocked that the figure is so low considering how many millionaire writers/showrunners there are in the guild. Basically this is worse than when it started. This is how I would sum it up.

The WGA is demanding too much because they don't want to be screwed again like they were in 1988.

The AMPTP is saying "If you don't play by our rules, we're not playing." It's an ultimatum to get the WGA to play how the AMPTP wants to play.

That's all it is. Goodbye TV season. Thanks for the memories.

average joe Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 02:24 PM EST

The writers make more then enough money (230k+ annually), their salary is not comparable to NO OTHER JOB. AND NOW they come to a conclusion that it is not enough, they want to CONTROL the industry by creating restrictions and rules, and if not followed they threaten to (and did) strike, ie. (little kid throwing tantrum on the floor like a spoiled rotten kid), everyone should wake up and realize what is happening, dont fall for the writers who should not control ultimately what you end up watching, why you watch it, when you watch it, how much you will pay to watch it, how long you get to watch it, and if you will even watch it at all. I can go on and on about their AGENDA it is numerous. Everyone should realize these ideas put forward by a handful or even a smaller number affecting hard working writers forced to submit or be labeled any term or word more than likely originating from the handful of the key WGA members putting forth this illusionary strike. WAKE UP!!

trsquare Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 01:24 PM EST

CGK, first off, it's "So YOU'RE a teacher." not "Your a teacher." Obviously, you aren't a writer. Yes, you can find lesson plans on the internet, and no, the teacher who developed those plans do not get residuals for their ideas.
Also, I said I work with kids, not that I'm a teacher. I work in the non-profit sector with kids from the lowest socio-economic backgrounds.

Me Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 12:29 PM EST

When you become a TV writer, you know what the setup is going in. It's not like all of sudden they spring it on you that you're not going to get revenues from DVDs and internet streams. Further, when a scientist tests and develops a new drug, they don't get residuals every time someone goes to Walgreens and buys a bottle. But the most important thing to me that I haven't heard mentioned is their performance as writers. In my job, I get paid both by the position I have AND HOW WELL I DO MY JOB. How anyone that writes for General Hospital or How I Met Your Mother can think they deserve a raise for that is beyond me.

EPro Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 12:19 PM EST

Exactly, Jenna. While the AMPTP floats this "$230,000" figure, they fail to mention the $95 BILLION dollars the entertainment industry generates annually. The producers are just trying to get public opinion to sway in their direction. I will continue to support the writers, who deserver their fair share. Visit UnitedHollywood.com for a really great explanation of the stunts the producers are trying to pull.

Jenna Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 12:12 PM EST

Thank you CGK, not to mention the fact that the producers and actors get paid HOW MUCH a year? We all know conservative estimates are MILLIONS of dollars. Someone is making money off of what the writers do, and no one would makes any money on a project if the plot is stupid and dialogue unbelievable. All the writers want is a percent of money earned, it really doesn't seem like too much to me.

Jenna Kellso Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 12:12 PM EST

Thank you CGK, not to mention the fact that the producers and actors get paid HOW MUCH a year? We all know conservative estimates are MILLIONS of dollars. Someone is making money off of what the writers do, and no one would makes any money on a project if the plot is stupid and dialogue unbelievable. All the writers want is a percent of money earned, it really doesn't seem like too much to me.

Bob Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 12:11 PM EST

Trsquare -- Don't be tricked by the AMPTP's statement. They clearly floated that misleading "230,000" figure deliberately to inspire our outrage. Most writers make considerably less than 230,000 a year, including most Guild writers. We have to keep in mind that screenwriting comes with zero job security and often demands years and years of UNPAID work to even break in, not to mention fallow periods between jobs where writers must also continue writing UNPAID to stay current and eligible for the next job. Yes, WHEN writers are mid-level staffers at network or premium cable shows, they are well compensated...but at any given moment, those writers represent a fraction of all working writers. Look closely at their language: the AMPTP is trying to fool us and to turn the tide of public opinion against the writers.

CGK Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:55 AM EST

To trsquare: So your a teacher then? Well, let's say your superintendent decided to record your lessons (the ones you spend countless hours on) and post them on the Internet so that others can take that same class online for a fee. Oh, and by the way, you won't get paid any extra.

And they also decide to make DVDs of these lessons so that people can buy those and learn all this stuff at home. Oh, and you're not going to get paid anything extra from that either.

And yes the AVERAGE salary is $230K. My guess is there's a significant number who make less than that. If you just wanna be bitter about money, go out and get a job with a better salary.

And to the person who whines about having nothing to watch: Get over yourself. You've probably got satellite or cable with hundreds of other channels. Find something else to watch.

trsquare Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 11:21 AM EST

The average wage for a writer is $230,000 annually? That's considerably more than the educators who taught them HOW to write! As someone who makes a fifth of what they do working with kids, I feel no pity for the strikers.

KG Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 10:39 AM EST

i read everywhere that the writers are the good guys and the amtp is filled with rich & selfish jerks. for me, a viewer of a lot of tv shows, i'm more mad at the writers bec they're the ones that chose to go on strike. now i don't have anything to watch anymore. i am the viewer - their customer. the customer is king! now get back to the table and negotiate and end this strike dang it!

Sean DL Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 02:11 AM EST

But then they have to deal with the SAG(Screen Acting guild) in the Summer of 08, so yeah, this is more about making sure they defeat the writers first before they fight the big dogs...

Kevin Sat, Dec 8, 2007 at 01:25 AM EST

The writers are stupid, but I see what the AMPTP is doing. They're stalling to wait and negotiate with the DGA. That will set the precident and the WGA will end up with a deal they won't want, but have to take. AMPTP is protecting themselves. What a bold strategy.

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